This is an interview that Frank Morano conducted with former Gamblino mobster Anthony Ruggiano. To hear the entire interview listen here.

This was conducted in December of 2022.

Frank Morano (00:57):

Welcome to the Racket Report, the podcast that takes you inside the world of organized crime, especially Lakos Nostra. There’s a lot of mafia podcasts out there, but there’s only a handful that are hosted by people who really have inside knowledge of the life, not only as the son of one of the most prominent gangsters in the New York area. And not only as a gangster himself, but as someone who has, uh, seemingly made an effort to help a lot of people battling the same issues that led him to turn to a criminal career in the first place. That’s why I’m very, very pleased to welcome Anthony Ruano Jr. An ex mobster with the Gambino Crime family and the host of the Reformed Gangster Podcast. He also happens to be the son of, uh, fat Andy Ruggiano. Anthony, it’s great to have you. Thanks for joining me, uh, here on the racket report.

Anthony Ruggiano (01:49):

Oh, it’s my pleasure. I’ve been looking forward to it.

Frank Morano (01:53):

Uh, no, the pleasure’s all mine. Uh, if people are not familiar with your background and your family’s background, it’s really quite a story. It’s not the stuff of one book. It’s the stuff of about five or six books and a miniseries. Uh, tell people about your father. He really was ascendant in mafia life in at, at a time when the mob was ascendant in terms of its power and its reach here in the United States. Tell folks who your dad was.

Anthony Ruggiano (02:21):

Well, my father was, uh, Anthony Fat, Andy Ruano. Uh, he was a, a maid member of the, of the Mafia. Um, he was actually was made by Albert Anastasia before the Gambino family was actually even called the Gambino family. But to go even further than that, he was actually raised pretty much by, by maid members because, um, my grandfather unfortunately died when my father was six years old. And at the time, my father’s close friends from childhood, all their parents and uncles were members of the mob. Uh, his two best friends, actually, one of their fathers was the Dasher. He was in Murder Inc. And his other best friend, Lenny, his uncle was happy man, and he was in Murder Inc. So these are the houses that he grew up in, in East New York, Brooklyn. And, um, you know, as he got older, he got into a little trouble.

Anthony Ruggiano (03:12):

He was in the Army and he went awol and he went to prison. Um, he had a, a beef with his, uh, drill sergeant. And, um, he, he, he, he was arrested. They sent him to Leavenworth, and when he came home, he went back to prison six months later. So he had a pretty, you know, uh, what rough childhood. And, um, when he got outta prison the second time, actually, he, him and his partner were, were, uh, they were robbing poker games in Brooklyn, which was a big no-no, you don’t just rob mob poker games. And, uh, this other wise guy named Charlie Wagons, who was with Albert Anastasia, um, his poker game was robbed. And he reached out to find out who my father was, and my father was introduced to him, and he took a liking to him. And he gave my father a job. My father was probably in his early twenties, and that was his introduction to that family.

Frank Morano (04:04):

You described your father as a dad as being very loving, very present, uh, seemingly very, um, active and positive influence on your life as a child. Uh, one of the things that I think a lot of people that may see mob movies or read about mob trials in the tabloids have a tough time understanding from time to time is the dichotomy between a person who can be a mafia hitman and go out and kill people and assault people, and rob people by day and by night, is a very loving, uh, family, man and father. I’m wondering if you could speak to that at all.

Anthony Ruggiano (04:44):

Yeah. You know, I think that’s, that’s what makes that lifestyle so unique. I think that’s what draws people in this, how you explained it. So, yeah, so my father, um, that was, he just believed in it. I mean, his, his whole life was, was the mafia. I mean, he believed in it wholeheartedly. He thought the public were fools. He hated, you know, it was anti-government. He believed that they were the real mafia, the government, I mean, uh, and, uh, you know, he just believed in what he, what he, what he did. And, you know, as far as, um, committing crimes and violent action, you know, that was just all part of the job. I mean, the mob considers murder work. That’s, that’s, that’s like a, a phrase they use. Like, he did some work, he did a lot of work, or he did a piece of work that means, you know, he killed somebody.

Anthony Ruggiano (05:30):

And my father, he was, he was a great father. I mean, he loved sports, he loved, um, music. He loved food. And, you know, he, my brother and I, he took us from a very early age to Yankee Stadium. I mean, he used to actually, now here’s, here’s a mob guy, a a killer, you know, um, and I, in the, in 59, 60, 61, he would take me to Yankee Stadium, and I would wait outside the player’s door with him because I wanted to see Mickey Mantle. And he would wait with me to, so I could watch Mickey Mantle walk out of the player’s door and walk through the police barricade to his car. Um, you know, but he just believed in it. And, and many times, you know, he went out in the morning and committed acts of violence. I even just found a newspaper article about a homicide he committed in 1963.

Anthony Ruggiano (06:21):

And I was only 10 years old when that took place. And, you know, later on when I was older, how I know it was him is because, you know, when I got older, he told me about it because when I got into the life, he started explaining things. And it’s funny that you asked that question because my, I found out who my father was through the older kids in the neighborhood. My kid brother, he found out who my father was through the newspaper because my father had gotten arrested in, it was on the front page of The Daily News. And my brother had a little league game that night, and my father came to all our little league games. And what happened was, I went upstairs and my father asked me, did Albert read the newspaper? And I, well, he asked me first my brother, if that’s true about Daddy.

Anthony Ruggiano (07:05):

And I said, yeah, you know, and, um, I went upstairs and my father said, did Albert read the newspaper? And I said, yeah. He, he read it. And uh, so we walk boat, went back downstairs cause my brother and I lived downstairs and my father, we had an apartment in the basement. And we went downstairs and my father told my brother, did you read the newspaper article? And my brother said, yeah. And my father like, looked at him and said to him, do you still want me to go to the game with you? And my brother said, yeah, of course I do. You know. Um, and we went to the game and it’s so funny because now when we got to the game, all the, all the other kids’, fathers, they just thought my father was just a little league father. Nobody knew he was a wise guy or anything like that, you know?

Anthony Ruggiano (07:47):

Now we get to the game and all the fathers come running over, oh my God, Andy, we didn’t know. And, and you know, they, they were like all like, uh, all in on now, you know? Cause now they knew he was a wise guy, you know, it was all over the newspapers or was on the front page of the news. And, uh, the wind up was later on, he actually got, like, some of the kids that when they got older jobs, he got one kid in the car with this union. They all started asking him for favors. So, you know, that was my childhood.

Frank Morano (08:15):

Uh, that’s, uh, that’s wild. Hey, just so folks know the magnitude of, uh, the kind of person your dad was in the criminal underworld. Do you have any idea if you were to try to pin a number on it, how many homicides he might have been responsible for?

Anthony Ruggiano (08:35):

Well, when I know of seven that he was personally responsible for, but there was more, because what happened was that he didn’t tell me, like when he got sentenced in Miami on his case, they had a hearing before the sentencing. And, um, a special agent from New York flew down to testify at his hearing. And, uh, and he testified that he was, he was, he was the suspect in 18 homicides. Um, but, you know, I don’t know if that’s true or not, but he, he did a lot of work. You know, he, he did a lot of work at a young age. You know, um, he, the first thing he did was when, as soon as he met Charlie, he committed a homicide when he was like 24 years old. And, you know, he did, he did special things because actually, which is very rare, in 1953, the books were closed.

Anthony Ruggiano (09:30):

And that means when the books are closed, nobody be, could become a maid member. And he was a, they considered him what they call a special case. And the books were actually opened to him to become a maid member. And, uh, and so he got actually made when the books were closed. Hmm. And that’s because back then you had to do, um, you know, you had to commit homicides for the family. And Albert Anastasia used to call my father, the kid that was like his nickname. And he got taken in for a lot of shootings that never took place. He actually got taken in when Frank Costello got shot in the head in the hallway and lived, um, there was a, there was a subscription of, of a, of a, if you look at the Chin, who was actually the shooter, he, he actually resembled my father a little bit.

Anthony Ruggiano (10:14):

They were built the same. And back then, my father goes, every time there was a mob hit or something, they always scooped him up and put him in a lineup. And they actually took him in for shooting Costello. But, uh, and took him to the hallway actually, and made him walk it up and down the hallway. Cause they said the guy saw of Waddle, then he was like, sh little heavy. And, uh, of course it wasn’t him. And I asked him one day, my father kid around, I go, you sure it wasn’t you? And he said, no. Cause if it was me, he would’ve been dead

Frank Morano (10:43):

<laugh>. Oh, wow. Uh, so you did not, um, know as a, a child necessarily, the kind of life that your dad was involved in. I think you were about 13 when you learned who your dad was. What was that like for you? Did you view him differently after that? And uh, how did that change your relationship and maybe your perception of him?

Anthony Ruggiano (11:08):

Yeah. Well, when I was a kid, I always knew something was different, but I didn’t know why. I always, I didn’t, like, I didn’t actually know what he did for a living, but I knew it was something different. You know, even when I used to go to school as a young child and they would say, you know, tomorrow we’re gonna talk about what, what our parents do for a living. And, you know, I would go home and ask them what he did for a living. And he told me he worked in a dry cleaners. And I always, and I knew that wasn’t true, but I didn’t actually know what was true. And I said it anyway in school. Like, I told the teacher, my father works in the dry cleaners, but I, I knew it wasn’t, that’s not what he did. But I didn’t know what he did.

Anthony Ruggiano (11:45):

When I got older and I drifted off my block at 13 and I started hanging out by the local pizzeria, I would go to the corner and I would hear the older guys like point me out and go, that’s fatty Andy’s son. And like, they would point me out and actually one of them one day like, sort of gave me a test to see if I really was Andy’s son. And he walked up to me, his name, I’m gonna forget his name. His name was Frank. And, uh, he said to me, you are Fat Andy’s son. And I go, yeah. And he goes, oh yeah, well, what’s his partner’s name? I said, what’s his partner’s name? His partner’s name is Tony Lee. You know? So like, they gave me a little bit of a test and uh, you know, I just felt special at that point. You know, I sort of felt like, uh, I always, I felt special and, uh, it attracted me, you know? It attracted me, you know? Um, and as I got older, you know, and I, when I was 16 and I actually went to work for him, you know, um, it was exciting.

Frank Morano (12:41):

And that, that leads me to my next question. Do you think that the admiration that you had for your father and the fact that you looked up to him led to you going down that path and your own involvement in organized crime?

Anthony Ruggiano (12:57):

Without a doubt. After I started working with my father, he tried to discourage me. He really didn’t want me in the street. He would’ve prefer he, but he, he, he had no father and he never really knew how to discipline me. Hmm. Um, if that makes sense. Like, he was, he, he, you know, he, he never raised his hands to us. You know, he never, he never, you know, raised his hands to us. I mean, he raised his voice, but he never raised his hands to us. And after I started working for him, he took me with him one night. I talk about this a lot. He took me with him one night to this bar in Brooklyn. And, um, we walked in and it was, I’ll never forget, it was a Friday night. And the bar was really, really crowded. And, and we, you know, we walked up to the barn, of course, cause I was his son.

Anthony Ruggiano (13:38):

I ordered a drink, you know, cuz he, he allowed me to drink. And we, I ordered a drink and he, I was about 17 and he ordered a drink and eventually he turned around to me and he goes, you notice anything? So I looked around, I go, yeah, the bar got, you know, it started to empty. The bar started to empty out. And he goes, yeah, right. He goes, you, you know why the boss start to empty out. I go, no, why? He goes, cause I’m here. I said, what are you talking about? Cause I’m here cause you are here. He goes, cause they off. I’m here to kill somebody, hit somebody, hurt somebody, abuse somebody. So they’d rather just leave than stay here. Because to me, he said to me, is that how you wanna live? I was thrilled. <laugh>, you know, it had the reverse effect on me.

Anthony Ruggiano (14:18):

I was thrilled. I thought it was the greatest thing since ice cream. I said, oh my God, I want respect like that. I want people to fear me like that. You know, it, it, it had the, the reverse effect that he was hoping he would have on me. And, um, and you know, and I just ran from there. And then he started schooling me after he knew that I was go, I wasn’t gonna go back to school. Then he, you know, actually started schooling me in that life. But a lot of it had to do, I wanted to be him.

Frank Morano (14:44):

I mean, that’s,

Anthony Ruggiano (14:45):

That’s the bottom line.

Frank Morano (14:47):

Yeah. I can understand the, um, the glamor, the, and the way that looks, uh, to a young person. W when, if you’re, if someone’s a baseball player and their son wants to become a baseball player, you know, that son doesn’t necessarily get the opportunity to play for the Mets or the Yankees unless, uh, they have the talent to do so. Uh, same thing for doctors, same thing for, uh, variety of other fields. Uh, a lot like, you know, a lot like maybe politics and maybe business to some extent. There’s really a remarkable amount of nepotism in the mafia world. I mean, it, it always seems that so many of the folks that rise to the level of being a, a captain or a, or a boss, that they have, uh, parents, uncles that were part of that life as well. What role did nepotism play in your own ascendance up the mafia hierarchy?

Anthony Ruggiano (15:42):

Oh, yeah. You know, um, I was Fat Andy’s son. I mean, you know, um, and I was, and I, and uh, you know, I was, I was running the streets with Buddy with Arne’s son, and I think it was sort of like a, a royalty thing. Like, um, someone used to tease me and say, we were like the Kennedys, you know, and, and you know, we had the bloodline and we had the pedigree and uh, and uh, you know, but not everybody, every, I know a lot of, um, sons of wise guys that got into the life, but they weren’t all criminals or they weren’t all gangsters or thugs or they, some of them, you know, they just were so and so son and they got straightened out cause their father had a ton of money and, uh, and you know, and, and they just straightened out their sons. Like, so I was in the trenches, like me, I started, you know, when I went to work to work with my father, he put me to work in blackjack games and crap games and, you know, number offices. And I, and I went to prison for those jobs, you know, so, but, uh, it was just a belief that they passed it on to us, but in reality they should have, you know, like I I, I made sure my son didn’t get involved in the life. I made sure of that.

Frank Morano (16:54):

Yeah, I mean, that’s great that, uh, you were able to kind of learn from some of the lessons that you experienced, uh, when your dad was in the same position that you were in, tell me about the first time that you met John Gotti

Anthony Ruggiano (17:08):

<laugh>. Well, well after I drifted off my block, cuz you know, back then in New York, we all stood on our block up until a certain age. And then we like drifted off our blocks into the neighborhood. So when I drifted off my block and started hanging out on hundred first Avenue, my father started taking me to, there was a lot of social clubs in my neighborhood that, that wise guys had. And, um, my father being that I was roaming around the neighborhood now, my father didn’t want me to get hurt, and he wanted people to look out for me. He wanted to make sure, but he knew who I was. So, you know, if I did anything stupid, like, you know, they wouldn’t hurt me, you know, so, or vice versa, they would look out for me. So he started taking me to the clubs. And I already knew Charlie Wags because he’s the, the guy that proposed my father and had my father made. So I already knew him, fish Club on hundred First Avenue. And my father took me there to introduce me to everybody. And, uh, that’s the first time I met John Gotti. He was in the club that day, and I was introduced to him. I was about 13 and I was introduced to him and Angela Quack Quack, and his brother Jeanie, and a few, and a couple of other people.

Frank Morano (18:12):

And, uh, how, uh, did there come a time that you yourself got straightened out and was formally inducted into the Gambino family?

Anthony Ruggiano (18:20):

No, I was proposed. What happened was I was proposed twice. The first time I was proposed, I was waiting for the ceremony and, and I went to prison. The second time was when I got out of prison in oh four. They proposed me again and I was sent for by, uh, this fellow named Lenny DeMar, who was a captain in the Gambino family. Cause I was technically with him and Nicki Carra at the time, who was another captain in the Gambino family. They were two prior two members that my father actually made proposed. They used to be with my father. And, uh, they had passed my name around and I, and I, and I, everything got approved and Lenny sent for me and told me, um, listen, everything’s approved. You know, we’re just gonna wait for the ceremony. But you know, you, you, you have permission to go on sit downs. You could, you know, represent yourself. You don’t need any representation. Everybody knows that you’re gonna get straightened out. We’re just gonna have the ceremony in a couple of months. I said, fine. A week later, I got arrested for a homicide. Ugh. And I never had the, so I was actually a pro proposed, but I never actually had the official ceremony.

Frank Morano (19:29):

What was the reaction like in Gambino crime family circles when you learned that, uh, Sammy Gravano, the underboss of the Gambino family was going to flip and become a cooperator?

Anthony Ruggiano (19:43):

You know? Well, I was actually in prison when that happened. So what happened was, so what happened was, cause I had a very, very good friendship. I had a very good relationship with John Gotti. I mean, he always looked up for me. Um, so I was in prison. I just had, I just got, um, a one and a third to four for, um, policy, which was a big, we had a big number ring in Jamaica, Queens. Now it’s called The Lottery. And we had gotten arrested for, yeah, we had, the government stole everything from us. Just want you to know that. Yeah. I mean, uh, so, uh, we had gotten arrested for a state Rico. And anyway, I took a plea. I was in, I was in actually in reception with this guy named Bobby, who was a wise guy with the Gambinos. And him and I used to walk around the yard every night.

Anthony Ruggiano (20:26):

And, um, one night he came out, I was waiting from, and he, and he was like, lady, he was a little late. He missed the first move. And then he came out on the second move and I’m in the yard. And, and, and I could see like something was wrong. And he walked up to me and he goes, that guy’s co-defendant flip that guy. We always referred to John Gotti as that guy. We never really used his name. We always said that guy. And we knew it was John. And he told me, he says, that guy’s co-defendant flipped. And I looked at him, I go, who? Frankie? I thought it was Frankie. Look I had no, you know, like Sammy wasn’t even a thought in my mind. And he said, no, Sammy, I said, Sammy. And I just looked at him, I go, I said, John’s dead. And, you know, it was just a, it was, you know, we, him and I were kind of upset. Everybody was upset. I mean, but him and I were upset. Yeah. It, it, it was every, we, we all knew that John had, you know, a serious problem once that happened.

Frank Morano (21:17):

Tell me about how it all came down to for you. I know you, uh, did, uh, several different stints in prison for a few different crimes ranging from, you know, uh, just the policy games to the ultraviolet. When did you make the decision to decide, this is not for me anymore. I’m done with this life. I’m moving on. I’m gonna try something else.

Anthony Ruggiano (21:41):

You know, listen, I was in that life since I was 16. I was groomed, I was, you know, schooled and, you know, and cooperating was the furthest thing from my mind. When I was in prison the last time in, in 96, my father died in 99. Tony Lee died, his partner and John Gotti died. I mean, so all the three people that I was closest to that looked out for me, uh, were gone. Um, I got out of prison and I had to go to work. You know, when I was in prison after my father died, they pretty much took a lot of stuff from me. Um, Nick Karaza, who was a captain in Gambino family, he sort of stuck up to me. He had me transferred to his crew because the crew that I was technically would took everything that my father had. They stopped sending my mother money.

Anthony Ruggiano (22:30):

Um, and, uh, so Nikki had me transferred to his crew. Um, and when I got out, it just was a different world. And when I got arrested in oh five for the murder, like, it took me over a year to make that decision. It’s hard. Like I tried. I didn’t want to, and I fought and I tried to come up with money for the attorneys, and I couldn’t, and nobody was really looking out for me. And, um, I could see like my co-defendant, like things were happening that sorta they were trying to put the weight on me and the night, like, but not in a way where they had to cooperate, but they were trying to, cause I was the last person with the victim. Like, I picked him up and drove him to where, where the murder took place. And it took me a whole year and a coup.

Anthony Ruggiano (23:16):

I would pick up the phone to call the FBI and I would hang it up and I would pick it up and I would hang it up and I would paste the floors. I mean, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was very traumatic for me because my, you know, my, my father was always in my ear even though he was dead. And, you know, in, and then, um, then a couple of things happened. Like, I saw this one guy that I knew that I was pretty close with, and he told me, you know, why don’t you just call the government? I said, how could you ask me a question like that? I can’t disrespect my father like that. He goes, disrespect your father. Your father’s dead. You did everything he ever asked you to do. You committed murder for him. These guys ain’t looking out for you.

Anthony Ruggiano (23:55):

You know, called. And, and I couldn’t do, I still couldn’t do it. And then what happened was the final straw, what happened was I had some legal issues going, and I need my, and I needed some information from my co-defendant’s attorney because I needed to put a motion in that would help me. So an attorney, a good friend of my father’s and myself was trying to help me, and he couldn’t. And my co-defendant’s attorney wouldn’t help me. So this attorney, this mob attorney who I, I want to develop their name, he called me and told me, listen, these people are gonna throw you under the bus. You need to call the government. And the next morning I woke up. The next morning I woke up and, and I, and I still couldn’t make the call. I had a, for some reason, which I never did, this one, FBI agent Jerry Conrad had given me his card when I first got arrested over a year before that.

Anthony Ruggiano (24:53):

And for some reason, I don’t know why, maybe cause he was nice to me or whatever the situation was. I kept his card, which I never did. I always used to rip him up and throw him out. But I kept his card. And the next morning I woke up and like I said, I still couldn’t make the call. I took the card and I gave it to my wife. And I said, here, listen, when you drive to work, this was, I was living out in Colack Long Island. She had to drive into Queens or to Ridgewood. I said, when you get to work, call this number and tell whoever answers the phone to come see me. And she did. It was, it was, it was very, very, very, very hard. You know? And, you know, people ask me, and I tell them, I say, listen, you know, like it was something that went against everything I was taught and everything my father believed in.

Anthony Ruggiano (25:45):

And, you know, but I know if my father was alive, I would’ve never done it. I would’ve never cooperated. I could never give up my father. I would’ve never gave up my father or Tony Lee or John Gotti for that matter. I mean, and I know, I guess maybe I could say that’s how I could still look in the mirror, because I know on my heart, I wouldn’t never gave them up. And anybody that really knows me pretty much knows that’s the truth. But, um, you know, I made a decision, I hit a bottom, you know, it’s like drugs. You know, I hit a bottom in 1988 using drugs, and I got clean. And, you know, I went to treatment and I addressed the issue, and I hit a bottom with, with that lifestyle, because I was never intent.

Frank Morano (26:23):

Yeah. Uh, I, I, i, it sounds it, uh, c I wanna follow up on your decision to cooperate and why cooperation seems to be such a common career ending for so many mafia folks. But first, let me follow up on what you just said, uh, the, the role of addiction in your life, whether it’s alcohol, whether it’s drugs, talk about that and how that sort of fed into your criminality and how you were able to kind of break that cycle of addiction.

Anthony Ruggiano (26:53):

Well, you know, I, I was a criminal before I became an addict. So, I mean, the, the drugs for me came later on. So I was already in that lifestyle through my father, like, you know, um, way before I had an issue with cocaine. So, you know, I, in the seventies, you know, I’m partying in New York with all, you know, with everybody, you know, everybody’s blowing coke. I’m hanging out with celebrities, you know, I’m, I’m hanging out with the biggest celebrities in the world, blowing Coke with them at the Ritz. You know, you come to my house, Frankie Valley’s sitting in my dining room, you know, Jay Black is sitting in my dining room, Louie PR is sitting in my dining room, you know, and, and I’m in Manhattan with all these celebrities getting high. You know, like, we lived the life, you know, we, we were fat Andy’s kids.

Anthony Ruggiano (27:36):

We were, you know, we, I was in Manhattan almost every night. I mean, you walk up in the Ritz and you sit down with me, I’m, I’m blowing Coke with David Bowie, Andy Warhol, you know, uh, it was, it was just a crazy time. And then one day you wake up and you got, and you, you know, you have a, you know, you have a, an issue, an issue with the drugs. And, uh, you know, when I was 35, I just knew that, um, it was killing me. You know, I, I was, I was doing a, I was free ba and cocaine, you know, uh, my father had got 40 years in prison. He was in prison. Um, you know, things weren’t going good. And I hit a bottom and I woke up one day, and it was, and I just got to the point where I knew that if I didn’t stop getting high, I was gonna die. And, uh, and I made a phone call and, uh, Tony Lee came to my house, my father’s partner, and, um, I told him I needed to get into this treatment center, and, and he paid for it. You know, he paid for it for me to go there. And I went there and, um, and I got clean. And when I came outta treatment, you know, John Gotti actually bought me a car cuz he didn’t want me to get stressed out.

Frank Morano (28:36):

Wow. Uh, wow. That, uh, that’s something, um, uh, it, uh, by the way, just for folks that might be, um, having, uh, problems with similar issues or have loved ones that, uh, that deal with similar issues, you have a foundation now called the Face, the Music Foundation. What is this foundation? What are you trying to do with this?

Anthony Ruggiano (28:56):

Right. I’m, so, I’m an ambassador for a foundation called Face the Music. And what that is, it’s a charity, a non-profit organization that raises money to scholarship people into drug treatment, alcohol treatment. So it’s a, it’s a, we feel that just because you don’t have insurance or money, you shouldn’t be denied treatment if you are looking to help yourself and change your life and start new and maybe, you know, get off the, the chemicals that you’re on. So this foundation will scholarship you and pay for your treatment.

Frank Morano (29:27):

Uh, that’s great. So, uh, if people wanna learn more, uh, what’s the best way to do, go to the website, just

Anthony Ruggiano (29:32):

Go online, just go to the website, face the music, and, uh, and or go on my website, anthony ruano jr.com or go to my, you know, on go. Uh, it’s all over my YouTube, my, my, uh, uh, reformed gangsters, uh, you know, we, we talk about it in the beginning of every, every podcast. So, uh, yeah, my, my, yes, that’s the best way. That’s great

Frank Morano (29:53):

To

Anthony Ruggiano (29:53):

Reach out to the foundation,

Frank Morano (29:54):

You know, um, and it’s a great, uh, great organization called Face the music.org. And one of the things that I love that you’re doing with this, one of the things I love that the group does is there are so many people that might be battling with addiction and substance abuse, and they don’t have health insurance. And a lot of times there are a lot of treatment facilities that they simply can’t afford to go to because they don’t have insurance. And, uh, it’s great that face the music goes out of their way to help folks that, uh, may not have access to, uh, you know, to insurance or other resources like that. Now, um, l let me ask you, and I know this might be a, a tough thing to talk about, but let me ask you about your decision to, uh, cooperate and the, the results of that, uh, of that cooperation.

Frank Morano (30:42):

It, I know, um, it was very well publicized about eight years ago when you were ultimately sentenced by, uh, judge Jack Weinstein headline mobster who had in-law killed, gets off with time served. And if you read the tabloid coverage of this, of this at the time, your, essentially your prison sentence was just three days for helping to kill your own brother-in-law, even though your brother-in-law’s family was in court asking Judge Weinstein for the harshest possible penalty. Um, what do you think of that? Obviously, you, uh, don’t want to be in prison, and I don’t think anybody be, would begrudge you that, but what do you think, if you were someone else looking at your situation here, you have a, a family that, uh, doesn’t have their father around, at least in part because of you, and instead of serving time in prison for the crime that you committed, you are free. And they’re, uh, how do you, how would you view that if you were someone other than Anthony Ruano?

Anthony Ruggiano (31:51):

I would probably view it the same way they viewed it. That it’s, it’s terrible, you know, um, I feel terrible for them. Um, I would feel probably the same way they feel, you know, but I’m, I, look, I’m looking at it from a different point of view, because even though he was my brother-in-law, he knew the deal. I’m not saying anybody deserves to die. Don’t, that’s not what I’m saying. But he knew the deal going in that this was Fat Andy’s daughter, and he was told by numerous people to stay away from him, and he still chose to go with her. He was no angel. He was the killer himself. He committed murders. He was, he was a dangerous person. And, um, you know, and, and he did something that he knew he shouldn’t have done, and he paid the ultimate price for it. And I wish I could go back and, and change it and not, and, and, and stop it.

Anthony Ruggiano (32:39):

But I, I can’t, you know, and at that time that it happened, you know, that was something that we did that, uh, that was just, that was what happens when people do what he did. And I felt terrible for them. You know, my own niece told the judge to give me life in court. It was horrible. You know, I feel terrible for his family, but at the time, I didn’t, at the time of the murder, I, I had no conscience. And I, it didn’t phase me. It didn’t phase none of us that were involved in it, because that’s just the frame of mind you were in when you’re in the street. That’s just the frame of mind that people that are in that life have. But now, when I look back at it, you know, I think about it every day, you know, um, I wish I could go back and change it, but I can’t.

Anthony Ruggiano (33:20):

And, and I probably would feel the same way. They feel, you know, judge Weinstein really sorta, if you read his whole, his whole statement to them after they read the impact letters, he made a, uh, uh, he, he made a statement. And if you read what he said, he, he made it. He, he, like, he asked, he told them that they should blame the mafia because that’s how I was raised. Like sorta, and, and, and that if he put me in jail, he would take away a tool from the government that’s helping prevent this from happening to the next person. Because, you know, I testified at six, six trials. I mean, I, I gave them a lot of information. I put, you know, we put away a lot of people that committed a lot of homicides. So I, you know, that doesn’t justify what I did. But, uh, you know, I, I, I paid the ultimate price for it. Also.

Frank Morano (34:14):

Continuing now with, uh, Anthony Ruano, he is the host of the Reformed Gangster Podcast. Anthony, a lot of people will hear this, your description of your involvement in your own brother-in-law’s murder, and they’re gonna think that that sounds like a different world, something that they can’t relate to. Explain to folks what’s going on in your brain morally when you realize that your in the midst of committing a murder of a family member.

Anthony Ruggiano (34:46):

Well, you know, so I was, you know, once when I was 16 and I got into the shoot with my father. So, you know, at that point, the time when we were planning the murder, it was honestly, um, as terrible as it may sound, it didn’t even phase us. Like we, uh, you know, it was something that, um, we felt had to be done. He was a dangerous person. He was putting his hands on family members. Um, and, um, the, actually, the person that pulled the trigger volunteered because he, you know, he wanted to become a maid member of the mob, and that would like escalate his membership if he actually committed the murder. And, uh, you know, um, mor morally, it didn’t even phase me at that time. Honestly, as terrible as that may sound, it, we, we, you know, he knew what he was getting into, um, but he was told to stay away from my sister and he didn’t. And, uh, and that was the outcome. Um, when I think back at it now, it was, you know, it, it was terrible. And I wish I could go back and, and not, and change it, but I can’t. But at that particular time, um, it was something we did and, and we, it was a cold-blooded thing we did. I dunno if that makes any sense or

Frank Morano (36:01):

Verified. I, I, uh, no, I, I I, I can understand that, right? I mean, clearly, uh, this is what goes on in, uh, in that world in general. And, uh, I, it makes a lot of sense for folks that are curious about what life is like when you’re at your height, right at the height of being involved with the mob, what kind of money can you make all the different criminal enterprises that you’re involved in at the height, how much a week or how much a month might you be taking in? I realize that you’re spending a lot of that money maybe frivolously at times, but what kind of money can you be taken in?

Anthony Ruggiano (36:36):

Oh, I mean, you could be taking, you know, the, I you could be taking in millions. I mean, my father took in, um, you know, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Um, uh, um, at one point in the nineties, myself personally, I was earning some weeks, 15, $20,000 in a week, um, with, between all the enterprises I had going, uh, Michael Francis, for example, was actually one of the biggest money earners ever in the mob. He was, he was taking in eight to 10 million a week, which is unheard of, um, cr it’s crazy amounts of money. I mean, some people are big earners, and you know, I know, I know wise guys that were broke that didn’t, didn’t know how to earn money, you know, uh, that worked at jobs. But, uh, but at the height, you know, tons of money. I mean, we, my father was making, uh, big money through so many different enterprises, and a lot of it, most of it was illegal earnings, but, uh, there was also some legitimate business involved also.

Frank Morano (37:38):

And all told, uh, your entire time in that life, how many murders did you participate in?

Anthony Ruggiano (37:49):

I personally only participated in one actual murder, but I participated in a couple of murder conspiracies that, um, one didn’t take place and one took place, but I wasn’t actually there when the person was murdered.

Frank Morano (38:09):

I, uh, I’ve seen you testify a couple of times. I think I saw you testify in the, uh, sorrow trial, and I think I saw you testify at the trial of, uh, Bobby Glasses. Oh, you were in court V Renacci. Yes, I was in court. I covered both of those trials. And you ca I thought you came across as a very credible witness, and I’ve seen a lot of people including cooperators who, uh, d who I thought did not come across as credible witnesses. I’m curious, I think all told you probably testified in five or six trials. Did you find that you were more comfortable in your fifth or your sixth trial than at your first, did you find that you became a better witness the more times that you did it?

Anthony Ruggiano (38:51):

Honestly, no. Um, it’s like, it’s hard. It’s like it’s tunnel vision. Um, no, I, I think, um, I, I, I think I felt the same throughout all the trials from the first one to the sixth one I testified at six altogether. You know, it’s, uh, it’s strange because once, um, once you sit in that seat and you start to testify, it’s, even though there’s people in the courtroom, a jury and spectators, you are so zoned in on the person that’s in front of you asking you questions. You sort of zone everything else out, and, and it’s just you and the person that’s questioning you, especially when you’re getting cross-examined, you know, because then they’re really coming at you and try to, you know, cross you up and, you know, catch you in lies if you’re not being honest. And I think I came across, um, the way I did, and I, and because I was honest, I mean, I, I, I never really, I never made anything up.

Anthony Ruggiano (39:50):

Um, you know, whenever, whatever question they asked me, I gave her an honest answer to the best of my recollection. And no, I, I felt the same way throughout all the shots. I think that’s why I, I, I, they claimed I was a good witness. The government claimed I was a good witness because, um, you know, I think it’s all, it all goes back to in the street, you know, if, if, um, it all depends on, you know, if you have some courage, I guess, you know, and, and I, and no, I did. It was just like being in the street. It was just like being in a fight in the street.

Frank Morano (40:21):

Yeah, no, I can understand that. That makes sense. Speaking of that, as aro trial, he was initially acquitted on that big case that got all the attention that had to do with Zaha. That was

Anthony Ruggiano (40:33):

Amazing.

Frank Morano (40:34):

But, well, so what’s more amazing to me is that these mafia trials, and I’ve covered a good many of them, uh, in person. And, you know, as a commentator, it used to be an acquittal was unheard of, but now we saw an acquittal in the Vincent as Sorrow case. We saw an acquittal and a hung jury in the John Gotti Jr. Case, we saw Joe Waverly, Joel Ca case acquitted. We saw an acquittal. In the case of Francis Bf Guerra, we saw an acquittal in the case of Tommy G Holy, we saw an acquittal in the case of, uh, ramen. What do you think it says about where juries are these days, particularly in the New York area, that these cases, which used to be automatic convictions, we’re just seeing acquittal, acquittal, acquittal, acquittal.

Anthony Ruggiano (41:22):

Right. You know, it’s amazing because, you know, almost every one of those names you mentioned was absolutely 100% guilty of the crimes they were charged with, and they walked out of the courtroom. Um, I think it has to do a lot with the, with the, with the ethnicity of the people now that live in New York. I think a lot of the people are anti-government, anti law enforcement. Um, and it’s a lot to do with Hollywood, with pictures of glorifying the mob. And, uh, um, and it’s just blows my mind, it blew my mind that Vinny got found not guilty. I mean, I know for a fact Vinny was guilty of everything they charged him with. I mean, I, I I, my father literally sold the jewelry from the Lua heist. I mean, Vinny and Jimmy Burke brought my father to jewelry from Lua, and my father fenced it, and, you know, and then he got found out guilty. I think it’s a lot to do with, with the ethnicity of the people in New York City. It’s, um, and, and, and the anti law enforcement, I mean, you see what’s going on today, the, literally the, the law enforcement of the enemy. Mm.

Frank Morano (42:31):

Uh, and first of all, and maybe they figure we got such a great movie out of that latza heist that, uh, they’ll let bygones speak bygones. But when you say, um, when you, when you say the ethnicity, I’m not trying to put words in your mouth at all, but do you mean that because there are more minorities in New York these days, and maybe they know what it’s like to be hassled by the police or other law enforcement entities, that they’re more likely to deliver a not guilty verdict.

Anthony Ruggiano (42:56):

Exactly. Exactly. And, and, and, uh, and, you know, the music, the Hollywood, everything’s glorified. Um, everything’s made to look glamorous. And, um, you know, even at my first trial, you know, even my brother-in-law, you know, you know, my, we, there was two eyewitnesses to a murder, and, and, and the person that was charged with it didn’t get found guilty of the murder, got found guilty of everything else, you know? Um, yes. Interesting. Definitely. You explained the perfect. Yeah. Um, it’s not, you know, like John Gotti Jr. Um, you know, who has, you know, it’s, he’s glamorized, his father’s glamorized. He walked outta court, you know, um, I know the guy since he’s a kid, he, you know, he was a criminal.

Frank Morano (43:42):

Yeah. I mean, I think, and I, and I, and I covered all four of those Gotti trials. Um, yeah. And, you know, and I know that case pretty well. I think a lot of the problem with that case is the government waited so long to charge him that they, he was able to use that withdrawal defense because he hadn’t, uh, there was no evidence of mafia activity within the five years, had the government maybe not been so, you know, greedy, right. And tried to squeeze every drop of prison sentence, uh, time out of him might have been a different result, but we could do a whole separate show right.

Anthony Ruggiano (44:12):

On that. But, you know, but, you know, you touched on a perfect, you know, to to the perfect example is his last trial. He was indicted in Florida, in Tampa, Florida, and everything they could to get the case brought back to New York, and they won. Charlie Ksi, who was an excellent attorney, he questioned me on the Bobby Glasses trial. He was probably the best defense attorney I went up against as far as testifying. He was. He gave me the hardest time. Um, he got the case brought back to New York, and John got an acquittal. Whereas if he was on trial in Florida, he may have got, you know, they knew he had a, a better shot of getting found guilty in Florida than in New York. There’s a perfect example.

Frank Morano (44:54):

Yeah. Uh, Charlie was a, a close friend of mine, in addition to being a great lawyer. Um, he was a, a wonderful storyteller At lunch, or whenever, if we go out to dinner, he, the guy had more stories than, uh, than anybody I’ve ever met, uh, including more than a lot of gangsters, but yeah. Um,

Anthony Ruggiano (45:10):

I’m sure he did.

Frank Morano (45:11):

Just going back to your decision to cooperate now, I, I, like I said, I’ve seen a lot of folks, uh, make the decision to cooperate, and they essentially get a slap on the wrist for their crimes. And I could tell that they’re lying in court. I never got that impression with you. And I, I never heard from any d defense attorneys or any defendants that anything that you said was untrue. But a lot of folks are gonna listen to this and say, here’s a fella that Anthony Ruano that lived a life of crime, made money, did all sorts of horrible things, participated in some murders, and then when it comes time to pay the piper, he instead gets off because he’s willing to cooperate and testify against all of his criminal cohorts. Does it create a disincentive if we’re going to give a, for lack of a better description, a get outta jail free card to people that are willing to testify against folks that they’ve been committing crimes with their whole life?

Anthony Ruggiano (46:14):

Right. Well, first of all, you know, up until that point, I, I have al I, you know, people have to understand, I spent already 14 years of my life in prison. Sure. I was in prison. I went to prison the first time when I was 23 years old. Um, I had been in and out of prison my whole adult life. I had 14 years in prison, 14 years spent in prison. So I already gave up a lot. I, I nev I didn’t see my children grow up. Um, you know, that’s on me, you know, um, while I was in prison, I lost my father. He passed away, his partner passed away before I was in prison, while I also, while I was in prison, John Gotti passed away. So all the people that I was, uh, close with that would looked out for me and, and that I looked out for were gone.

Anthony Ruggiano (46:57):

And when I came out, I came out to a different world and, and the people that were out there weren’t really my, my friends, um, anymore. They, they, you know, I had to go drive a truck, you know, to earn a living. Yeah. They wanted to straighten me out, but, uh, for their own reasons, because they knew I, I, I would be good for them. I could run around for them. I knew the game. And that decision I made was, it took me over a year to make that decision. It was, it was taught, it, it, it was torture. And then, um, and I needed to change my life. I couldn’t live that life, life anymore. You know, I see. I can’t, I can’t speak for anybody else, but I just hit a bottom with that lifestyle. Like, I, I just didn’t want to be that person anymore, you know?

Anthony Ruggiano (47:39):

Um, and, and, and I, and I cooperated, which was, uh, a traumatic experience for me, believe it or not. I mean, I, I couldn’t, I couldn’t even make the call. I made my, my mother make the call. But this is my, my mother, I mean, I’m sorry, my wife, I made my wife make the call. But this is what the government offers us. I mean, listen, um, the government knows what kind of people we are. The government knows more better than what we did, better than we know what we did. They knew things about me that I forgot. I mean, you know, and this is what they’re offering people and, and people are gonna take advantage of it. You know, how do they sleep at night knowing they’re putting us in the street?

Frank Morano (48:17):

Right. I wonder the same thing. Yeah. I wonder

Anthony Ruggiano (48:21):

Thing, I mean, nobody ever asked them that, but they’ll say they need us for tools to fight. Like Weinstein said, he put me, he freed me because I was a tool for the government to fight the mafia, and they need tools. That’s how he worded. He phrased it in some kind of wording like that. Like, I, I became a tool for the government, which I, I, I guess I was. But, um, you know, how does the DOJ sleep at night? How does the FBI sleep at night?

Frank Morano (48:49):

I, I think those are great questions, by the way. Yeah. And, uh, when I had, uh, uh, John Gleason on this show, uh, I asked him those same questions about making the deal with, uh, with Sammy Gravano, who then went out and ran an ecstasy ring in Arizona. So I think those are, uh, great questions. Great. Tell me about your decision to launch your podcast, uh, the Reform Gangster Podcast. What are you hoping to do with this podcast? What are you hoping to get across?

Anthony Ruggiano (49:15):

Well, you know, I, I, I, I was, I, I started doing a couple of shows. I did a show, uh, on, uh, national Geographic, naco was the Mob with John Alight. And then I, I, uh, uh, a manager came to me, Pasqua and, uh, offered me a contract. And then I did a, I did VLA tv. I did an interview on VLA tv, and I started getting a lot of interest in my life story and a lot of people. And I, and I taught, and I spoke about my recovery, you know, from drug addiction and how I’m clean a lot of years. And I started getting a lot of, a lot of comments and a lot of people reaching out to me on social media. Once I, once I, my manager put me on Instagram and, and Facebook, a lot of people started reaching out to me.

Anthony Ruggiano (49:55):

So we thought of just, it would be a good idea to launch my own podcast, um, to talk about, you know, the real truth about the American Mafia because, you know, I hear a lot of people out there. Um, and I’m not pointing fingers at anyone personally in particular, some people out there with these podcasts are telling the truth and some of it, and I know that for a fact cause I was out in the street for 50 years, so I pretty much know who’s Sue. And I thought it would be a great idea to get my story out there to, to, to let people know what really went on, what really goes on in that lifestyle? How, how, how, at the end of the day, it’s not glamorous. And, uh, you know, it devastates families, my family victims’, families, and to sort of get my message out there to help somebody and to help myself and, and, and maybe, you know, earn a living through it and, and help somebody.

Frank Morano (50:44):

Uh, and if people wanna listen to that, what’s the best way for them to, uh, to find it? Just

Anthony Ruggiano (50:48):

Go on, uh, YouTube reform gangsters, or go online reform gangsters.com or go to my website, anthony ruo.com and there’ll be links on it.

Frank Morano (50:58):

Okay. Anthony ruano uh, dot com. R u g g i, Anthony

Anthony Ruggiano (51:03):

Ruo jr

Frank Morano (51:04):

Uh, dot com Jr. Uh, you, uh, uh, anthony ruano jr.com. Um, you mentioned earlier, um, Nick Caraso. There’s another prominent caraso in, uh, New York area crime circles. Not for his work as a gangster, but for his work in the courtroom. That’s Joseph Caraso. I think he’s represented you, um, at, at different times. Or maybe it was your dad or maybe both. But, um, he is someone that the government has sought to disqualify from certain cases because of his close relationship with not only his actual family members, but, uh, there’s actually been claims that he was, uh, a little more, a little closer than an attorney should be to the affairs of the Gambino crime family. Do you think an attorney like Joseph Caraso has sort of been unfairly demonized by the government? Is that an excuse to have him thrown off cases, or is that fair? Does he cross that line from time to time?

Anthony Ruggiano (52:06):

<laugh>. Okay. I know Joseph since he was born, I used to hold Joseph’s hand and walk into Yankee Stadium with him when he was a kid in the seventies. Everything they say about him is true. He’s, he is, he’s a mob member, blatantly, pledges. The best way I could explain it, he’s an out and out mob member. I, um, and I, I know him all his life. He defend, I had, um, I know his family intimately, his father, Jojo, my father, you know, they were all with my father. My father raised them. I have pictures of them with my father when they were teenagers, 20 year old kids. Mickey jojo, Lenny DeMar, um, that was my father’s crew until they all got met before, until they all became made members. He, he’s, he’s, he’s a mobster. He’s an attorney that’s a mobster.

Frank Morano (52:57):

All right. So he’s not being unfairly demonized by the government, it sounds like.

Anthony Ruggiano (53:02):

Not at all. Not not at all.

Frank Morano (53:05):

You, you, you alluded to the fact that, uh, and listen,

Anthony Ruggiano (53:08):

He’s a, he’s a excellent attorney, don’t get me wrong. He, he knows his way around the call. He’s a very intelligent kid. He, he’s a, he’s a, he’s a excellent criminal lawyer, but he’s a monster.

Frank Morano (53:20):

Got it. Uh, got it. Makes sense. Uh, you’ve been really generous with your time. Before I let you go, go two Oh my problem. Very quick questions I want to ask you about before we run out of time. You alluded to the fact a little earlier that you were proposed for induction into the mafia you were gonna be made. I think, uh, one of the things that, those of us that know about the mob through, uh, watching movies and, uh, the occasionally observing trials is that you have to be, you know, a hundred percent Italian Now, uh, Jean Brelo, who was I think your cousin and also a government witness. Yeah, he’s my cousin. Um, he says that you were going to be made, uh, I have heard, and I don’t know if this is accurate, I have heard that your part American Indian. I, is that true? You’re not, that’s

Anthony Ruggiano (54:06):

Not true. So my cousin Jean is part American Indian. Not me. No. My cousin Jean’s father. Gotcha. Jean Senior is half American Indian jean’s father is half jean’s. Father Jean’s grandfather on his father’s side was Italian. And Jean’s grandmother on his father’s side was American Indian. It has nothing to do with me at all. It’s my cousin Gene. Gotcha.

Frank Morano (54:29):

Would that have stopped Gene from being straightened out?

Anthony Ruggiano (54:32):

No, not, not, not today. Today it’s not. You don’t have to be a hundred percent. I believe now, today it’s your father has to be Italian. Cause look at John. John Gotti Jr. Is got some Russian Jew in him. His mother has, uh, is is a quarter Russian, uh, Russian, uh, her family comes from Russia.

Frank Morano (54:49):

Right? Well, yeah, Victoria always told me she was half polish, half half Italian. Uh, but, um, but, uh, you know, I’m

Anthony Ruggiano (54:56):

Not breaking Jewish, I’m not trying, I always thought it was Russian.

Frank Morano (55:00):

Yeah. I’m not gonna break out a genealogy genealogical chart when she

Anthony Ruggiano (55:04):

Yeah, no, you could, you don’t need to be a hundred percent Italian today. Um, I believe it’s just your father now. They, they changed it.

Frank Morano (55:12):

If people are wondering what is the mob like today? It seems like, as you said, you talked about sports and, uh, you’ve talked about policy becoming the lotto. It seems like so many of the enterprises that the mafia used to make money in, whether it’s sports gambling, whether it’s drugs, whether it’s this, whether it’s that it’s becoming largely decriminalized and the government is largely getting the cut that used to go to the mob. What role is left for the mob to play today?

Anthony Ruggiano (55:42):

Well, I mean, there’s always gonna be supply and demand. I mean, you know, there’s still probably have their hands in construction. They still have their hands in book making. You know, they just have websites. Um, they still have their hands, you know, they’re still selling stuff on tax cigarettes. Uh, they’re still into Wall Street. It’s just a different generation. It’s a different, you know, like the way, the way I, I, it’s funny, I was speaking to somebody the other day, the way I made money, even up into the nineties, the way I made money, and I made big money in the nineties. I could never operate those things today. I couldn’t. I, I don’t know how I would earn a living today if I was in the mob. Um, the way, way I made money in the nineties, I could never do today because of the surveillance, because of the cameras and, um, and, and the, and the wire. It would be impossible for me to make money today. So, I mean, the mob, you know, they’re like, they, they’re like a snake. They shed their skin and grow new skin, but there’s always gonna be people figuring ways out to make money. Probably a lot of drugs, I’m sure they’re into a lot of drugs. They’re into big Medicare schemes, you know, setting up offices with Medicare and banging out, you know, x-ray. It is all kinds of ways to still make money. It’s just not the same way as I made it.

Frank Morano (56:58):

And then lastly, this is a question I ask everybody, uh, lawyers, uh, gangsters, law enforcement officials, journalists. In your opinion, um, so much of what we know about Mob Life is told through the lens of Hollywood, of any gangster picture you’ve ever seen. What do you think is the most realistic, maybe not the best picture, but the most realistic to depiction of Mob Life?

Anthony Ruggiano (57:25):

Oh, it has to be good fellows.

Frank Morano (57:27):

Good

Anthony Ruggiano (57:27):

Fellows. Most it has to be good fellows. Good. I would say, uh, uh, good fellows. Um, Dino was pretty on the money, but Good Fellows is probably the number one realistic movie, especially personally for me. I mean, when I first saw it, I was blown away by it. Cause it was the first time I actually saw my life on the screen. You know, the Godfather was The Godfather was a great cinematic movie. You know, that’s when I saw that as a kid. It was great. But when I saw Good Fellows in the theater, and it was just so, so real to me and so personal. So I would definitely have to go with good fellows.

Frank Morano (58:05):

Gotcha. All right. Uh, well, we’ve been talking with Anthony Ruano. You could catch more of him on the Reformed Gangsters podcast. You could just Google reformed gangsters. It comes right up. There’s also a ton of interesting information on his website@anthonyruano.com. A fascinating story. It’s the stuff not of, uh, not of one film, but probably a whole series of films. <laugh> Anthony, thanks for being so generous with your time, and thanks for being so candid in talking about some issues that I know have probably been difficult for you.

Anthony Ruggiano (58:35):

Thank you. It’s been my pleasure. Anytime. Have a good holiday day, Frank.

Frank Morano (58:39):

Thank you. Merry Christmas to you as well. Merry

Anthony Ruggiano (58:41):

Christmas to you too. All right.

Frank Morano (58:44):

If you enjoyed this podcast, I do hope you’ll subscribe. If somebody sent it to you, you could just search the racket report with Frank Moreno on, uh, any podcast app. Hit the subscribe button and every time there’s a new episode, you’ll instantly get it downloaded to your wireless device whenever we post one. And, uh, if you wanna offer me any feedback, you’re certainly welcome to email me frank.Moreno@wabcradio.com. That’s frank dot ano w abcradio.com. Until the next time we meet in cyberspace, I’ll see you on the radio.